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Re: The fantasy world of Pro Hunt deviants
2003-07-02 21:29:28
"Oz"
> swamp > >On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 19:10:33 +0100, "pearl" > >wrote: > > > >>Our natural dietary niche is that of a frugivore > > > >Egads, here we go again. > > > >She maintains this viewpoint despite the *fact* we digest, process, > >and derive nutrition from animal fats and proteins quite well, and the > >*fact* we'd be severely malnourished on a frugivorous diet. > > and we have been eating meat for 5,000,000 - 10,000,000 years. Evidence for that? > and chimps still do. 'According to Tuttle, the first substantive information on chimp diets was provided by Nissen in 1931 (p.75). In 1930 Nissen spent 75 days of a 3-month period tracking and observing chimps. He made direct unquantified observations and examined fecal deposits and leftovers at feeding sites. He also found "no evidence that they ate honey, eggs or animal prey" - this observation may have been too limited due to seasonal variations in the chimp diet. In Reynolds and Reynolds (1965), Tuttle says that a 300 hour study of Budongo Forest chimps over an 8-month period revealed "no evidence for avian eggs, termites or vertebrates", although they thought that insects formed 1% of their diet (p.81). In another study of Budongo Forest chimps from 1966 to 1967, Sugiyama did not observe "meat-eating or deliberate captures of arthropods", although he reported that "the chimpanzees did ingest small insects that infested figs" (p.82). Tuttle says that later observations at Budongo by Suzuki revealed meat eating. Where the earlier observations wrong, or incomplete, or maybe an accurate reflection of their diet at the time? Did the chimps change their diet later? We do not know. Chimps sometimes change their diets on a monthly basis. A study of chimps at the Kabogo Point region from 1961 to 1962 by Azuma and Toyoshima, revealed that they witnessed "only one instance of chimpanzees ingesting animal food, vis. termites or beetles from rotten wood." (p.87). From 1963 to 1964, similar observations were found in Kasakati Basin by a Kyoto University team, and when Izawa and Itani published in 1966 they reported "no chimpanzees eating insects, vertebrates, avian eggs, soil or tree leaves and found no trace in the 14 stools that they inspected " (p.86). In contrast Kawabe and Suzuki found the Kasakati chimps hunting in the same year (p.88), although only 14 of 174 fecal samples contained traces of insects and other animal foods. So perhaps these differing observations are due to seasonal variation, or even local differences (cultural variation) in feeding preferences - Tuttle does not reveal which. Maybe some of the chimps groups are 'vegetarian', while other are not. But see the Kortlandt observations below before believing that all chimps are meat-eaters. .. Kortlandt states that predation by chimpanzees on vertebrates is undoubtedly a rather rare phenomenon among rainforest-dwelling populations of chimpanzees. Kortlandt lists the reasons given below in his evidence. # the absence (or virtual absence) of animal matter in the digestive systems of hundreds of hunted, dissected or otherwise investigated cases # the rarity of parasites indicating carnivorous habits # rarity of pertinent field observations # the responses when he placed live as well as dead potential prey animals along the chimpanzee paths at Beni (in the poorer environments of the savanna landscape however, predation on vertebrates appears to be much more common) Kortlandt concludes this section on primate diets by saying that the wealth of flora and insect fauna in the rain-forest provides both chimpanzees and orang-utans with a dietary spectrum that seems wide enough to meet their nutritional requirements, without hunting and killing of vertebrates being necessary. It is in the poorer nutritional environments, where plant sources may be scarce or of low quality where carnivorous behaviour arises. Even then he says that the meat obtained are minimal and perhaps insufficient to meet basic needs. Finally he adds "The same conclusion applies, of course, to hominids . . . it is strange that most palaeoanthropologists have never been willing to accept the elementary facts on this matter that have emerged from both nutritional science and primate research." ..' http://venus.nildram.co.uk/veganmc/polemics.htm
2003-07-02 21:46:01
please note, if you want to go through all this rubbish again, why you only have to search on google groups looking for the name Lotus and you will get the lot. It was never very convincing that time either. Jim Webster
2003-07-03 14:18:58
."Charles Francis"
news:cLjfPpccD+A$EwGl@clef.demon.co.uk... > In message > writes > >Were we to readopt our natural evolutionary diet, that would mean > >reforestation, replanting of woodlands, and orchards. The vast areas > >of land currently grazed could be allowed to become once again natural > >habitat allowing recovery of wild species, and healthy balance restored. > > Good idea. Lets start by slaughtering the 95% or more of the worlds > population necessary to allow this sort of ecosystem. Starting with > everyone we don't like. Indeed, anything but you and the people you like quitting the meat habit..
2003-07-03 14:19:15
."Jim Webster"
news:bdvhib$csb$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk... > > please note, if you want to go through all this rubbish again, why you only > have to search on google groups looking for the name Lotus and you will get > the lot. It was never very convincing that time either. Jim said it, so it must be true. LOL.
2003-07-03 14:24:49
"pearl" news:be1bjg$n7f$7@kermit.esat.net... > ."Jim Webster" > news:bdvhib$csb$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk... > > > > please note, if you want to go through all this rubbish again, why you > > have to search on google groups looking for the name Lotus and you will > > the lot. It was never very convincing that time either. > > Jim said it, so it must be true. LOL. > still listening to the voices? Jim Webster > > >
2003-07-03 17:56:21
"Jim Webster"
> > "pearl" > news:be1bjg$n7f$7@kermit.esat.net... > > ."Jim Webster" > > news:bdvhib$csb$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk... > > > > > > please note, if you want to go through all this rubbish again, why you only > > > have to search on google groups looking for the name Lotus and you will get > > > the lot. It was never very convincing that time either. > > > > Jim said it, so it must be true. LOL. > > > > still listening to the voices? > > Jim Webster And what 'voices' would those be, Jim?
2003-07-03 17:00:36
twilight zone wrote:
>>still listening to the voices? > > And what 'voices' would those be, Jim? Maybe he means Adama of Telos and the other "enlightened beings" from inner earth.
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